If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. The Armys blind spot with retention data is further highlighted by comments made by Brig. and our In an all-volunteer force, you won't be ready if most of your personnel in a critical branch want to get out. Vertical Reference Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. You make an excellent point..I'm a twice retired CW4 (did a voluntary retiree recall three years after my first twenty). Paste as plain text instead, We are very, very interested in seeing more applications, he added. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. If you love the flying youre doing, and you have a squadron of good people, any assignment can be a great experience, no matter how busy you are. One of the reasons for the increased ADSO was related to demand from the private sector for pilots. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. June 5, 2020 in General Military Helicopter Discussions. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a Restricted ATP rating and a shot at a regional airline job a couple of years before his Active Duty pilot peers. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. That will solve our retention problem!" | Army Organic Industrial Base Modernization Implementation Plan, Army Civil Works announces publication of a formal review for Nationwide Permit 12, Army Extends Timeline for Postpartum Soldiers to Meet Body Fat Standards, U.S. Army updates promotion and retention policies in response to COVID-19. People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. It is extremely frustrating to see some officers and senior NCOS make such short sighted decisions to solve complex issues without finding the cause, and not conducting any type of research. If you receive the Grad School option, the option costs you nothing because GrADSO runs concurrent with your flight school ADSO. Apache course end? Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. Back To Top The pilot shortage is not in applicants it is in mid career. Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. How to Join and Requirements Scholarship Opportunities Cadet Life , Network, As the COVID-19 crisis continues to drag on, I cant help asking my crystal ball how things are going to shake out. Within the company we tried to level out flight time to give the senior guys some rest, but the battalion/brigade leadership was too risk averse and pushed back. They wont, we already dont get the congressionally authorized flight pay. Suddenly, Active Duty isnt looking that bad, right? There are also discussions within the Army aviation community of additional changes that would make becoming a warrant officer even less appealing. While I really want to be an aviator, the thought of being TOTALLY LOCKED IN until I'm 34 is terrifying. This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. . A chief warrant officer 3 with eight years of service earns $5093.70 per month, whereas a captain with eight years of service earns $6435.00 per month, a difference of $1,341.30 in favor of non-Army pilots. The root cause cited by those transitioning at various levels has related to toxic climates, mismanagement of professional profiles, quality of life, and unit culture. I agreed and accepted my appointment based on certain terms and the terms are getting altered without my consideration. Stan figured that even spending 5 years in a non-flying job, this track would make him a military pilot well below the USAFs current age limit (33 years old), and would actually get him to the airlines sooner than his Active Duty pilot peers. The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. It never ends. As several others have said, this policy fails to address the root problems high OPTEMPO, poor quality of life, irrelevant mandatory training, etc. That is completely and totally gone. Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. Therefore, this option is virtually free for Aviation officers. They require more time for people to gain experience. There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. While its not impossible, and BogiDope can absolutely help you get there, this is far from guaranteed. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. The US Army is missing the boat by not letting seasoned professionals into flight school. , this is far from guaranteed. That evens the odds even more. What if Stans 5-year ADSC runs out as the next SARS/Swine Flu/COVID-type pandemic puts hiring on hold? They think this is going to solve the shortage. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. Just so we know I'm not a whiny do nothing: seven deployments, six combat for a total of 70 months and 66 months respectively. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Your email address will not be published. Not difficult for the Army in finding 300 additional NCOs for the WOFT program if need be. So why are aviators getting out? Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. Often times these decisions being made do more harm than good, and cause a tremendous amount of work (just look at our administrative packet processes). The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. It is for anyone graduating flight school and should be based on your graduation date. For the Army, the costs are much cheaper. Army, Coast Guard . It didn't help that the CSA took advantage of his own program by taking private military flight lessons and was awarded his pilots wings while a 4 star. Im would bank on that being the flight school start date officially. Change flight school where primary flight training is done by civilian contractors via fixed wing. But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. June 22, 2022; a la carte wedding flowers chicago; used oven pride without gloves; army aviation 10 year adso . Serving on Active Duty is also the only way to get an overseas flying assignment. The severity of the decline in recruiting will be unknown until the recruiting data comes in from the first affected class of cadets and warrant officer candidates. Typical Army of not addressing the real issues. In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. Hes likely deployed at least 3 times, if not more, and has also spent many weeks TDY. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? There is no down time, no time to build family and relationships and the team. This mindset is far from universal, but its prevalent enough that the Academy actually had pilot slots go unfilled a few years ago! self refer to ASAP, mental health, yea you can get out but you're not going to fly on the outside. Serving on Active Duty has plenty of advantages, and even offers some highly-desirable opportunities that you cant get anywhere else. Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path. Unfortunately, it will likely not have the opportunity to do so due to the negative impact it will have on retention in the near term. I am planning on staying in anyway but that 10 year also looms big if everything sucks and you hate it. . If retention suffers too much, the Army will face a pilot production shortfall that will add to the existing shortage. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can . New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. I spend almost 20 years missing opportunities due to family, deployments, school, and fear to change. 10 year ADSO started FY21. This is usually a 1-year assignment, though it might be two. The policy also applies to Army Reserve and National Guard components, but their obligated service will remain part-time, he said. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. NG will have 10 years. The Department of Defense released a report in July 2019 that laid out the challenges the military faces with pilot retention and included plans of action from each branch. That will solve our retention problem!" Aviation Bonus (AvB) Program. amp, D. Your email address will not be published. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. Very true. Its a lot to ask. So got word that it only affects WOs that complete WOCS after 1 Oct 2020. In the end, it's the Army getting a good return on the investments.. The Army is making those who want to go through flight school incur a 10 year active duty service obligation (ADSO) as it's "fix" for pilot retention. On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. BrADSO - I signed for one, but then I know for a fact that it wasnt required/taken but its still on my iPERMS. This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Army's initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. So Army. Not difficult for the Army in finding 400 additional career minded E-3 to E-7 for the WOFT program if need be. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation, from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. What if Stans 5-year ADSC runs out as the next SARS/Swine Flu/COVID-type pandemic puts hiring on hold? The institution of the new ADSO stands in testimony to a DOD organization entrenched in process and procedure at the expense of adjustment to any current reality. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. Im a senior NCO with two decades of experience and proven loyalty to the nation and her army. Army Aviation Leaders should. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. Really sucks for all the street2seat guys coming in or anyone that has prior Aviation experience on the outside. However, increasing the service obligation of new pilots is the wrong course of action. If he didnt go to AFIT, hed have to move for a second assignment anyway. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. Heres some humor about the topic too https://thefrontlines.com/comics/army-pilots-beware/. It doesn't matter that the WOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) Also if you have any time in the army at all, youll probably stay until 20 at that point. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. ADSO is completed. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The Army only draws between 300-400 non prior WOFT applcants yearly. In my first year and a half after flight school I flew over 500 hours. I'm roaring and ready to go. Press J to jump to the feed. It's not exactly friendly but this is the military. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. The UH-72 costs twice as much to operate as a TH-67. Is it only for new guys coming in? However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. Another disparity is the pay inequality between the militarys pilots. Ive also called this the, Stans idea (Do 5 years as an engineer, then fly for the Guard or Reserve), Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. This call to action comes amid challenging times, with many civilian airlines running on reduced flight schedules, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jon Koziol, the Armys command chief warrant officer to the aviation branch, during a Facebook livestream in June. Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. If ATPs are granted, I'll be the first one to sign up as a warrant officer. While its not impossible, and, BogiDope can absolutely help you get there. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! That being said, they let you fly as your primary duty and fly cooler airframes. Expand The 10 year ADSO will actually prevent all but the youngest street-to-seaters from making the jump, I graduated flight school right after turning 24 and the AF won't take you after 33 without a waiver. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. You can post now and register later. Active component warrant officer strength, as of October 1, 2018 (Source: Report to Congressional Armed Services Committees on Initiatives for Mitigating Military Pilot Shortfalls), Two main variables affect pilot strength in the military: production and retention. Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. 10 is a big commitment either way. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Sounds great! You are likely going to be on Active Duty Status for about 7 years once you finish command as most officers command a company around their 6th year of service. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I know some people haze junior warrant officers. At least 70% are not degree holders and they come from all 5 branches of the military. Well, the short answer is, we dont know. I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. This! If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. I was enlisted for 6 before I moved over. Deployments are great flying, but terrible on a family. The best pilots I have served with were prior NCOs. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? c. Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates accepti ng an appoint in the Regular Army or a Reserve Appointment with a concurrent call to active duty incur a 3-year ADSO (see AR 350 .