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My first lawyer Tom Howard told me to say that I shot Oswald so that Caroline and Mrs. Kennedy wouldn't have to come to Dallas to testify. The continuity there, the lack of stability, I think, entered into that to a large degree. The jobs not doing that good. At what age Lee started gathering this, or sensing it, or hearing it and applying it to him, I don't know. But the facts are there. You've talked about Lee's character -- trying to do something, getting frustrated, doing something dramatic. To me, you can't reach but one conclusion. In one of the Warren Commission's exhibits, Hal Collins is listed as a character reference by Ruby on a Texas liquor license application.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ruby They didn't know for sure if he was an agent or not. I said, "Lee, they've got you charged with the death of the president, shooting a police officer. With regard to his return home from Russia in June 1962 with his family -- what did he tell you about reporters meeting him, and what do you think it really meant? Theyve got the original negative. His comment was she is too much like Maw. That was our affectionate name for Mother. All these ups and downs he's having, he keeps trying to get up and make it at some level, but he's not succeeding. As chief counsel to the 1977 House Select Committee on Assassinations, Blakey led the investigation into President John F. Kennedy's assassination, reexamining the evidence with a new forensics panel. He was assuming everything was being recorded, and, unfortunately, it wasnt. He was toying with them. I think it says that he is very pragmatic, and hes going to go with the punches. It's about escaping the status quo and achieving some kind of greatness, as it were. . We want to impose order and logic on everything. On the right right is Sgt. Very garrulous, very sexual, very clear about her objectives. I didnt know but I think that was his posture all along, with the interrogators. . Marina had gone over there to live with somebody until he got established over there. But at the same time, he always was trying to get away from her. That influence was just tremendous on him. He had acquired the vernacular of radical politics. Hes already tried living with Mother for about a week to 10 days, and that went the way it usually goes. You've got all the physical evidence that ties together. With regard to his return home from Russia in June 1962 with his family what did he tell you about reporters meeting him, and what do you think it really meant? That's almost unbelievable. She could really become somebody from New York real easy when she's in Texas, putting on the air[s], whatever you call it. In comparison to yourself, what was Lee missing from his childhood? According to Robert Oswald, the "hard physical evidence" leads him to one conclusion: "The Warren Commission was correct." Lees fantasy life, to me, became apparent in the 1948, 1949, 1950 period. There's a logic in that. He would talk about anything else. Hola Elige tu direccin Libros. Buscar Amazon.es. I think thats an understatement. . In your mind, are there questions about whether Lee shot President Kennedy? ** = At least this version is the most \"complete\" version I have ever seen, although a little bit of editing has certainly been done at the very beginning, because we don't hear the interviewer's first question to Oswald. It maybe opened up some doors for him. He's deeply unhappy and he stumbles on this whole world that stands in direct opposition to the world that he comes from. We were a burden. Why couldn't he find a sense of purpose or place there? He was ready. The Most Risky Job Ever. Reporting on ISIS in Afghanistan. He could be somebody from New York that knew a lot of things, somebody that could get around be somebody else. Its good that people raise questions and say, Wait a minute, lets take a second look at this. But when you take the second look and the third and the 40th and the 50th, hey, enoughs enough. So, to me, that was his back-up plan if everything else failed. tapes & transcripts+credits+privacy policy People ought to take note of this, that he should be interesting. What do you do with his rifle? What did he say, and what were you trying to get out of him? She clearly saw in Oswald a ticket to ride, an opportunity to leave Russia. This type of thing would interest him, whether he went to an art museum or a library or a movie theater or just walked around and saw sights. on the Internet. There is a power that comes from Marxist doctrine, a sense of belonging to something right now that is on the cusp of doing something very, very important. Can you summarize what the atmosphere was like there that Saturday, and what you made of it? We were a burden. [He wanted to] get established and start the American life, live the American dream. But you go back to the death of Dad two months before he was born, that's a tremendous impact. They didnt finalize that. Can you sort of talk about that character trait? But my goodness, this is completely out of the ballpark. It was wall-to-wall reporters, police officers, FBI, Secret Service. He just wanted to see what he could do about getting it done. Lee Harvey Oswald Shooting: Interview with Eyewitnesses - Reporters, Police (2012) Way Back 26.4K subscribers 439 185K views 8 years ago Later in the day, after driving into town with his two. I know he wanted to travel. This is a struggle that has gone on with me for almost 30 years now. At what age Lee started gathering this, or sensing it, or hearing it and applying it to him, I dont know. It was a terrible thing to look at. . When I returned home from work that evening, I asked him about it, and he said, Well, everything went all right. You look at the general opportunity -- he was present. His mother had the same type of imagination. This interview was conducted in 1993 in conjunction with Frontline's first broadcast of "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald? Explore FRONTLINEs collected and ongoing reporting on Russia's war on Ukraine. So then what happens, and how does he get to Dallas? He finally got a job that wasnt exactly what he really wanted, but it was a start. He pressed the lieutenants, he pressed the platoon leaders. Marina repeated to McMillan what she told the Warren Commission in 1964--that her husband was not capable of being recruited as a conspirator, and that he most likely acted alone in killing President Kennedy. But she certainly conveyed it to John and I at very early ages. The Dallas Police Department was utter chaos. Apparently hed been planning this for a long time. Every move is prompted by one of his mother Marguerite's failures -- personal, professional, or otherwise. I mean, they had asked the wrong man. That's the way I read him at the time. If it didn't work for Russia, he was going to stay in Europe anyway. One individual gave him a letter saying he could speak and write Russian at a particular level that he thought was real good. Kennedy the discomfiture of coming back to trial.\" At the time of the shooting Ruby said he was taking phenmetrazine, a central nervous system stimulant.Ruby's explanation for killing Oswald would be \"exposed as a fabricated legal ploy\", according to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. Our mother was Lee's most important person in his life. This video contains Oswald's complete television interview. He played an awful lot of hooky up there. But the Marine Corps has got set procedures and so forth to follow. What do you do with his actions? New York City. When he returned to the United States, he didn't want to be a Russian. As I learned later on, hes becoming very belligerent to Mother. I'm sure for a certain minimal fee, you could ride the subways all day, and he would do it just to get around. There was always a constant move. The big question is why. This was unsettling. Anytime they brought anything up that pertained to the assassination of the president and the shooting of the police officer, he knew nothing about it. Web Site Copyright 1995-2023 WGBH Educational Foundation. ", I became kind of intense at that point, looking into his eyes. Youve talked about Lees character trying to do something, getting frustrated, doing something dramatic. For Oswald, he never ever has a sense of home, or rootedness, and it fills him with this sense of rage, which he not surprisingly directs against his mother. ES. So it's not surprising that after just a few months, he began to grow tired of it. Historically in his life, it was always done by himself. Aline Mosby was one of the first women assigned to cover the Kremlin, while stationed in Moscow in 1959 she interviewed a self-exiled Lee Harvey Oswald, who. Nobody was telling him whether this was good, bad or indifferent, or what the consequences of what his actions were. But he had prepared answers and statements, anticipating reporters either at the ship or some place down the line on the return. After the assassination you see Lee in the police station, in the jail. This was a part of his character, that inner self, that we used to say, Me, myself and I will do something.. Fingeroth also conducted interviews with Ruby family members and associates. Skip to main content Due to a planned power outage on Friday, 1/14, between 8am-1pm PST, some services may be impacted. He is the author of the 1981 book, The Plot To Kill the President, and in the late 1960s he campaigned for and helped write much of the anti-racketeering legislation that would usher in the demise of the Mafia. Oswald lacked the historical or political consciousness of a genuine radical. If we go and get right down to the bottom line, we have to say, really and truly, in all candor, [she did] a lousy job, a lousy job. He didnt elaborate on that. He was using his own imagination. I've managed to keep it quiet." . The two girls grew up in a small Texas town, sheltered . discussion+glimpse of a life+links & readings+teacher's guide After Lees return, approximately two weeks, in the latter part of June 1962, he gets a call from one of the FBI agents I believe that was Mr. Fain in wanting to have a meeting with him. They've got your rifle. He wants to "do like Hemingway." Tell me about that, and what his attitude is and the kinds of things you talked about. The job's not doing that good. He was just out of the Marine Corps. The book's findings will catapult you into a trip through a house . I think this was passed on to Lee. In his new book, The Interloper: Lee Harvey Oswald Inside the Soviet Union Peter Savodnik, a journalist who lived and worked in Moscow and has extensively traveled around the former Soviet Union, dives into the foreign life of America's most notorious assassin. Could you describe Oswald's relationships with women? Only weeks earlier, he had visited Soviet. This is mind over heart. He really wasn't. And his disenchantment began to morph into a kind of anger and frustration. He knew something they didn't know, and he would keep it to himself. As far as Lee giving any information to the Russians while he was over there, even though he said he would if they had asked, apparently they weren't interested in it. I asked him, I said, Lee, what in the Sam Hill is going on? He said, I dont know what theyre talking about. I said, Lee, theyve got you charged with the death of the president, shooting a police officer. He is the older brother of Lee Harvey Oswald, and a former Marine and salesman. , I think Ive come to an understanding of Lee that I have now that I didnt, of course I mean, I watched the deterioration of a human being. . The main thing was getting a job and a manuscript. One was he wanted to get his manuscript typed up and written. Living in Fort Worth, TV was making its debut. FRONTLINE+wgbh+pbsi, web site copyright 1995-2014 He struggled. I had to ask him very serious questions. Hallo, inloggen. From Russia, he had written you, saying that he was worried about charges being brought against him when he came back. He was assuming everything was being recorded, and, unfortunately, it wasn't. It was wall-to-wall reporters, police officers, FBI, Secret Service. After obtaining a hardship discharge from the Marines, Lee Harvey Oswald left the United States for the Soviet Union in 1959. But the diminutive nineteen-year-old Marine was serious. There's another seed that's planted in him that stayed there forever. She could really become somebody from New York real easy when shes in Texas, putting on the air[s], whatever you call it. He had alluded to some relationships when he was in the Marines, but as far as anyone knows there was no girlfriend, or no evidence of a girlfriend, there was just some kind of bravado or talk. There is no question in my mind that he also shot Officer Tippit. I think that Marina's a very complicated character, and I think it's fair to say in Oswald she saw a very good opportunity. Now apparently, for whatever reasons or however they checked it out, they found out whatever he knew wasn't necessarily anything they'd be interested in. He had the presence of mind then to do that. All these ups and downs hes having, he keeps trying to get up and make it at some level, but hes not succeeding. Five or six eyewitnesses there. Tell me about his growing problems with Marina. That's the shocker. They wasn't going to convince him to say something. And why it wasnt stopped sooner. You'll receive access to exclusive information and early alerts about our documentaries and investigations. But he finally said, "Brother, you won't find anything there.". I tell him it may or may not be. ", He is the older brother of Lee Harvey Oswald, and a former Marine and salesman. It's always a friend or a woman. He was seeming to be pretty adamant about it. That was it. This was 1959. Lee Harvey Oswald did not have any particular animus for John F. Kennedy. Capture a web page as it appears now for use as a trusted citation in the future. And that process, that pattern was the same one that had occurred over and over in his life, and that was to attempt to settle in. . The committee found that there was a "probable conspiracy," suggesting that parts of the Mafia and/or certain anti-Castro Cuban groups "may have been involved.". I think he was surprised when he stepped off the plane in Dallas Field he asked me, What, no reporters? I said, Yes. There was always a constant move. From Russia, he had written you, saying that he was worried about charges being brought against him when he came back. He had the superficialities of radicalism, but that's what appealed to him: the sense of belonging, of being very serious. He would talk about anything else. His mother had the same type of imagination. As this realization deepens and becomes more omnipresent and more unavoidable, he feels a greater and greater need to get out, to escape. You've got all kinds of documented evidence. Gerald Hill.. This is a must watch till the very end.then another must watch with pen in hand . When Lee got back from Russia, the way he talked about the Russian system, he didn't talk about it politically, in the sense that he was wrapped up in communism or Marxism. However, Bolinas author Josiah Thompson says he has answered one very important question. There is no question in my mind that Lee was responsible for the three shots fired, two of the shots hitting the president and killing him. (TV) Summary. PBS is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization. But things were tight at that time. Saltar al contenido principal.com.mx. Thats the shocker. LEGEND: THE SECRET WORLD OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD : Epstein, Edward Jay: Amazon.es: Libros. He said no, that wasnt necessary, he could take care of it. He imagined himself taking part in something bold and totally separate from anything he had come from. He wasnt political. But a new book from world-renowned JFK assassination researcher Josiah "Tink" Thompson comes to a shocking different conclusion: Lee Harvey Oswald did not fire the fatal shot that killed. For this 2003 publication of the interview, Mr. Blakey has added a notation to those questions touching on the CIA, and refers the reader to a long addendum at the end of the interview that reflects his opinion on the CIA in light of current revelations. Nobody was telling him whether this was good, bad or indifferent, or what the consequences of what his actions were. This is a lawyer well known for being involved in left-wing causes. and he just laughed. Now, on to his biography and the major point of your book: the biography of Lee Harvey Oswald. Everything is deteriorating. As far as Lee giving any information to the Russians while he was over there, even though he said he would if they had asked, apparently they werent interested in it. I asked him about this lawyer in New York and I told him I would get him one down here, meaning in Texas. The appeal to Lee of something like that Marxism, communism, socialism, would be something unique, something different not [an] everyday occurrence. WGBH educational foundation, In Fight Against ISIS, a Lose-Lose Scenario Poses Challenge for West. There's a great deal of self-involvement, there's a great deal of desire to elevate himself, to become this world-historical figure. You've got the backyard picture. You had said that he had very much been on his own in New York. Thats almost unbelievable. We spent some time together. When Lee came back, how did he react to visits from the FBI when they came and saw him here? If they didn't know who worked for them, he could always say he worked for them; he was in control of the FBI then. I think the way Lee learned New York was just apply himself to it. He did not and would not talk to any of the interrogators about anything of substance. What do you do with his actions? Theyve got your rifle. This interview was conducted in 1993 in conjunction with Frontline's first broadcast of "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?" But Lee had that same personality type. He'd made some contacts within the Russian community in Fort Worth and in Dallas. Those are the indications that say he took some thought, some planning over a long period of time. Soviet officials, puzzled by the sight of Oswald, sent him to Minsk, where he would live until 1962, returning to the United States with a wife and infant daughter, along with a murderous rage that will culminate in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas on November 22, 1963. There is no question in my mind that he also shot Officer Tippit. This was his grand experience at the time. It just floors me, it floored me then. To try to understand why Lee did what he did on Nov. 22 is a cumulative effect of all his past plans and efforts and failures. He said, "I don't know what they're talking about." He had a rifle, he had positioned himself, he prepared in advance to take his shot, after he took the shot he left the rifle there, and then walked away and found his own way home. Industries Crime and. Show more Comments are turned off. None took him seriously. December 4, 1963: In an interview Lee Harvey Oswald's mother, Marguerite Oswald, says assumes her son is innocent and that President John F. Kennedy would be alive and so would her son if Oswald . Why was he asking for this lawyer, John Abt, up in New York? It's good that people raise questions and say, "Wait a minute, let's take a second look at this." And this opened up certain avenues or possibilities that would not have been available to him otherwise. Among his nine books is the bestseller, Case Closed (1993), which concludes that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. He seemed to really get involved with it. Well, his concern was, was there anything that I was aware of that [there] were going to be charges placed against him from anybody? Hes on a downhill run. He planned by himself, he executed by himself, he failed by himself. web pages He's always under this impression. The result of the whole mismanagement was Lee's death. There's hard physical evidence there. Lee would rebel against the discipline of the Marine Corps when he had the opportunity to, when the leeway was there. Can you summarize what the atmosphere was like there that Saturday, and what you made of it? How would he have reacted to that? When Lee is discharged, early discharge in September 1959, he returns to Fort Worth for about three days. You had said that he had very much been on his own in New York. And so the Marines, and then later the Soviet Union, should be viewed as an attempt by Oswald to find structure, to find place. What would it be? After the genocide in Rwanda and atrocities in Srebrenica, Bosnia, in the 1990s, the world vowed never again. Then came the conflict in Darfur, Sudan, which began 20 years ago. LEGEND: THE SECRET WORLD OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD : Epstein, Edward Jay: Amazon.nl: Boeken. He wanted to get his manuscript published if anybody was interested. But Lee had that same personality type. But he would look at it. No. Photographs and documents also are on display. His plans, as we well know now, were already made to go to Russia, rather than to Cuba. What do you say to people who are so convinced or are trying to believe in his innocence? In many respects, once he got beyond the superficialities, he found the actual substance, the content, the experience of communism and the Soviet Union very difficult to navigate. So you're saying, in a sense, he is the ultimate pragmatist? Did he evince any sort of sophisticated understanding of Marxism or communism, or of the Soviet Union in general, before he left for Russia? He was whats convenient to be. As far as material goods the car taking her to a grocery store the first time you cant believe how excited she was. He planned by himself, he executed by himself, he failed by himself. You cant set that aside just because he is saying, Im a patsy. Id love to do that, but you cannot. How would he have reacted to that? Initially, when we started talking, I was concerned about his bruises on his face that he had received at his capture at the Texas theater. I asked him about this lawyer in New York and I told him I would get him one down here, meaning in Texas. But at the same time, he always was trying to get away from her. He's getting a better opportunity, he thinks, in Dallas, because it's a bigger job market over there than what Fort Worth was at the time. Although Marina declined to be interviewed for FRONTLINE's program, McMillan talks about the perplexing, troubling events of Oswald's life based on what Marina confided to her. [Last Name] 1 Dawson C. Mills [4/26/2017] Ghosts of Mississippi Essay Late on the night of June 13th 1963, Myrlie Evers and her three children were together in the bedroom watching President ( at the time ) John F. Kennedy give a speech on civil rights. Oswald was an avowed Marxist whose sojourn to the. What kind of a Marxist was he? He always enjoyed books, but then he started exploring other areas. The shooting was broadcast live nationally, and millions of television viewers witnessed it. With each failure to settle in, with each failure to secure a job or hold onto that job, with each failure to secure an apartment or placate his wife, to build any kind of life with each failure, his internal pressure mounts. I think he was surprised when he stepped off the plane in Dallas Field -- he asked me, "What, no reporters?" What did he do? I know he wanted to travel. You can't set that aside just because he is saying, "I'm a patsy." The third thing was he wanted to look into his dishonorable discharge from the Marine Corps, because he felt like that was unwarranted because, i.e., he was released with honorable conditions. He always enjoyed books, but then he started exploring other areas. Did he talk about the Russian system and the American system and comparing the two? Lee Harvey Oswald (October 18, 1939 - November 24, 1963) was a U.S. Marine veteran who assassinated John F. Kennedy, the 35th President of the United States, on November 22, 1963. Then he joins the Marines, and then he has a lot of people barking at him, a lot of discipline. I think that's an understatement. Somehow, somebody never realized what the Sam Hill was going on. Tell me about his interest in the television show "I Led Three Lives" and what that says about him and his imagination. If it was any other murder case other than the president of the United States, it would have been resolved right then. But the diminutive nineteen-year-old Marine was serious. When you learned he had defected, did you have any explanation? Theyve got the camera. What do you do with his general opportunity? Documenting evidence of potential war crimes in Ukraine. Although that was Marguerite Oswald's first network television interview in many years, we were not the first journalists to speak with her. He started teaching this mans son how to write and talk Russian. Ga naar primaire content.nl. But this had nothing to do with an intellectual or ideological coming to terms with some kind of intellectual maturation, although Oswald tried to explain it that way. And that's all it was. Marxist doctrine is shot through with this furious rant against the bourgeoisie, against capitalism, against the society that had produced him. He wasn't political. The fact that he could put on a facade and pretend to be somebody he wasnt to me, it gets down to what happened later on. He's failing at almost every level. The Cold War was going on. Anytime they brought anything up that pertained to the assassination of the president and the shooting of the police officer, he knew nothing about it. I struggled through about 10 or 15 pages of it. ISIS' growing foothold in Afghanistan is captured on film. It just floors me, it floored me then. Oswald refused to talk to anyone at the U.S. embassy. Consequently, people left it wide open. I think they're inseparable. When Lee came back to Fort Worth, what kind of spirits was he in, and what kind of hopes did he have for his new life here? You look at all the data there, and it comes up to one conclusion as far as I'm concerned -- the Warren Commission was correct. He wanted to be an American, to be accepted by the American society, and so wherever he was he wanted to be accepted. I dont know how you want to express it, but thats the way he characterized her at the time. I said, "Yes. With John F. Kennedy, Lee Harvey Oswald, Nigel Barber, Raymond Burns. He had tapped into or been drawn to the emotions which that politics helped to foment, but did he have a deep understanding of how revolutions unfold, and the relationship between the proletariat and the means of production? She had been overbearing or whatever. I had to ask him very serious questions. Later, after the Kennedy. One in this documentary series. As Ruby evidently mismanaged the operation, he was given a choice to either finish the job himself or forfeit his life. In 1977, McMillan wrote Marina and Lee, an intimate portrait of the Oswalds' life together. Tragically, he accomplished that. Nothing illustrates the thinness, the superficiality of Oswald's ideology as his growing disillusionment with the Soviet Union. Can you describe that for me? Or he just walked the streets, ride the subways. He wasnt political. But then, Oct. 31, we hear that he's in Russia. He's going to fit in to where he needs to fit in to accomplish what he needs to accomplish what is very essential to get by with, to be somebody. Describe a typical day in Oswald's Minsk. the best way to support us is to become a member at SGTreport.TV or become a SubscribeStar Member Thank you & God bless. FRONTLINE: WHO WAS LEE HARVEY OSWALD? Hes getting a better opportunity, he thinks, in Dallas, because its a bigger job market over there than what Fort Worth was at the time. Tell me about his growing problems with Marina. In comparison to yourself, what was Lee missing from his childhood? First, the $64,000 question: Why did Lee Harvey Oswald kill John F. Kennedy? He was a former Marine who had once defected to the Soviet Union. He said no, he wanted that one up there. I dont know. Lee would rebel against the discipline of the Marine Corps when he had the opportunity to, when the leeway was there. His plans, as we well know now, were already made to go to Russia, rather than to Cuba. I wrote him back that, to my knowledge, nothing he has done warrants any charges, because they did not let him accomplish anything over there, i.e., the U.S. Embassy did not accept his citizenship rejection. Sat, Feb 25, 2023 LOGIN Subscribe for $1 He is convinced that his brother was solely responsible for the assassination of John F. Kennedy and in this interview offers details about Lee's formative years and young adult life, describing how his brother's love of television shows on intrigue and espionage such as "I Led Three Lives," became the "training ground for his imagination." Our mother was Lees most important person in his life. I don't know at what age Mother verbalized the effect that she felt he was a burden to her. In his interview with FRONTLINE, Blakey calls the prosecution case against Lee Harvey Oswald "open and shut." That to me is very plausible for him to do.